Talking Points 2

John Skelton & Beyond!

• "In the sixteenth century, power and status were closely bound up with costumes, symbols of authority, and visible signs of rank—the fetishism of dress. Clothing in this culture, as in ours today, was used as a marker of identity, but to a remarkable extent it could also appear to determine both gender identity and social rank" (Norton).

• Much literature of the 16th Century focuses on the fascinating, threatening, and some- times strangely vulnerable image of royalty. --> such as Elizabeth I

  
  

• C.S. Lewis, author of The Chronicles of Narnia, was highly critical of the 16th century poet John Skelton's "skeltonic verse," arguing that the type of verse could not attempt to "treat something fully human and adult" (129) in a serious manner. Lewis saw Skelton as a skillfully playful poet, but he did not believe Skelton knew where he was going as he wrote.

• From one point of view, Skelton can be seen to represent the irreverent, convivial spirit of “merry old Catholic England,” which the Reformation despised and did its best to eradicate. Conversely, he can be seen as a proto-Reformer, levelling sharp and witty criticism at the so- cial and spiritual corruption of early Tudor society.

• "Skeltonics" -- short verse of about 2-3 feet (or six syllables ) with end rhyme. Their is no regular pattern in meter, but there is the use of end meter

"The Tunning of Elinour Rumming"

• Post-Reformation writers may spiritualize sex, decorate it, or debase it, but none of them quite match Skelton for cheerful frankness. Perhaps the closest parallel is found in another early Tudor text, Utopia, where More writes approvingly of the custom of men and women being displayed naked to one another before marriage, so that they will know what they are getting in the bargain.

• Skelton was seen as a very controversial figure. He was arrested a few times. He secretly married, though he was a preacher. He spoke of "indecent" things in his sermons. He was an uncensored wit!

Discussion Questions

• To what extent Skelton is criticizing, and to what extent celebrating, the lives and actions of the people he describes in the poem?

• How do the “Skeltonics” contribute to the effect of “The Tunning of Elinour Rumming”?

• Identify aspects of Skelton’s work that seem medieval in character. Are there other aspects that seem to point to a more modern sensibility?

• Is Elinour Rumming a popular heroine, or a symptom of a corrupt and decadent society?

• What resemblances and what differences do you perceive between Elinour Rumming and Chaucer’s Wife of Bath?

  
  

  
  

"With lullay, lullay, like a child"

• What is the plot of this poem, and how does that work in tandem with the repeated lines?

• Tonally, what can we understand about the speaker's view towards the sleeping man? How does this align with what we have learned about Skelton's real person?

• How is the verse in this poem a bit different and more "traditional"?

"Mannerly Margery Milk and Ale"

• What meaning can be gotten from a poem in which the chorus lines are sung by bass? How might the poems situation and humor play a role in any larger meaning to be derived?

Okay, so now lets read a few more of the Skelton poems on-line. What are some of the ways that his particular style enhance his subjects and the satirical/biting tone found in much of his work?

Elizabeth I & the end of an era

• Elizabethan theater: her era was the first in which there were public playhouses! Among the ideas we can understand about the time being considered "Early Modern" include:

1. Admission prices were for the first time charged. Before, entertainment was a reward for work, etc.
2. Urban Traffic Problems, including vulgar behavior and debauchery (drunkeness).
3. Also, safety became an issue, as women were plucked off the streets and forced to prostitute! (Did we really think that what happens in Liam Neeson's Taken was a new concept!)

• Elizabeth I never married, and never had children. She had rumored affairs and arranged marriages gone bad, but she didn't marry.

• She was Protestant, and often used her faith to her advantage as a ruler.

For Next Tuesday:

1. Having read all of Elizabeth I (p. 687-703) and the following John Donne poems, complete Talking Points 2 for attendance and for points, and for discussion next Tuesday.

John Donne's Selected Poems

• "The Flea" (1263)
• "The Sun Rising" (1266)
• "Air and Angels" (1270)
• "Love's Alchemy" (1272)
• "The Funeral" (1278)
• Holy Sonnet 5 // "I am a little world..." (1295)
• Holy Sonnet 10 (1297)
• Holy Sonnet 14 (1297)
• You may also want to read the intro to Donne, page 1260-1262, for good contextualization on his poetry.

***As the hurricane known as Too Little Time comes to shore, we are quickly shifting from the 16th Century to the 17th Century. Hopefully we will be able to discuss the transition in culture and literature by discussing both Elizabeth I and John Donne (two prominent figures that can stand in for their times!)***

Sixteenth Century England (Early Modern)

Royal Timeline of Tudor Dynasty: 1485 - 1603

1485: Henry VII (Catholic)

1509: Henry VIII (Catholic to Anglican (protestantism)/mildly Protestant, according to political gain)

1547: Edward, the son of H.8th and third wife, Jane Seymour (heavily Protestant)

1553: "Bloody" Mary, daughter of H.8th and first wife, Catherine (Catholic)

1558: Elizabeth I, daughter of H.8th and second wife, Ann Boleyn (Protestant)

1603: Elizabeth I dies, James I of the Stuart kings takes over...

- Each Tudor successor of Henry VIII is his offspring. The first male heir ranks first, then his daughters (eldest legitimate heir to youngest) were in line.

London Becomes Cultural Center

• development of English language (this is the century that classics start to be translated into English and published)
• William Caxton brings the the printing press to England (circa 1476)...
• Mostly religious texts and political texts were reprinted, but poets didn't like their work printed (too much reprint took away from original audience, etc.)!
• Importance of the Royal Court: poets and playwrights were patrons of noble families, wrote to entertain the court. Fashion of those at court also dictated English dress.
• Court was full of secrecy and spying --> people tricking each other, trying to gain the king's favors.
• International trade grew heavily in this time period...
• 1517: Martin Luther and Protestantism -->as books and religious texts became cheaper, more personal readings of the Bible and other text become possible
• The Church begins to lose its influence, as a majority of the population (laymen) now have a way to not be pressured by or fearful of Catholic Church and the Latin services and numerous practices/rituals involved in services.

Humanism: Thomas More and Erasmus

• Renaissance brings about "humanism"
• The philosophical belief that puts humans at top of food chain. As our anthology states, "...man was the measure of all things" (488).
• Humanist like the English Thomas More and the Dutch Erasmus, focused on educating citizens (read: MALES) in the classics (Greek and Roman, etc.), including language.
• Humanism seeks the moralistic, political and philosophical truths.
• A paradox: the opposite of Christianity, but offers the same moral vision!
• Again, men were the educated ones --> universities move from place of clergy to place of well-to-do young men.

The Reformation

• 1517: Martin Luther brings about change in worship of Bible --> individual readings
• Protestant wave used by Henry VIII to divorce his first wife and he declares himself "Supreme Head of the Church in England"!
• In England, Henry VIII used change to his political advantage and to seize Church property and riches.
• Classic images and pagan characters enter into literature alongside Christianity! Especially within court literature.

Literature of Time:

• The sonnet is a form of choice for poetry --> 14 lines to create a world to live in. (an “English” sonnet, though with one rhyme repeated between the second and third quatrains: abab cdcd ecec ff)
• English "figures" became important to prose: to be quick and concise was not wanted. Double and triple meanings of words, and other figures of speech start to be the convention. (With the English language taking shape, and political power centered in England, the sense of nationalism begins to be reflected more in the literature.)
• Sir Philip Sydney's Defense of Poesy -- most important literary criticism of time period. Poetry is the highest art form, where poets can lead to "...a more virtuous and fulfilled existence" (Norton, 505).
• Pastoral poetry (rustic) --> emphasized country life over urban life...
• Heroic Poetry-->opposite of Pastoral; emphasis on honor/bravery/glorification of a nation's people (heroic couplets)

Other Factors In Rise Of Literature of Time:

• Travel (explorations going on in the Americas, etc.) leads to first literary responses to New World (such as today's reading!)
• Decline in "magic" and rise in science and religion (Italian Renaissance)

Thomas More * Utopia

• a humanist torn between law and religion.
• Became Chancellor to Henry VIII -- a close advisor -- after Utopia
• Was beheaded for not pledging to recognize H.8 as Supreme Head of Church of England. More silently believed that H.8 was acting beyond his powers in taking a spiritual position (perhaps More saw this as sacrilegious).

• Utopia allows us to investigate both the political atmosphere of the Royal Court, and humanist ideology.
• This piece was written in Latin for international humanist intellectuals; not for a general audience.
• Focuses on the ills of contemporary Europe and compares to a "utopian" society.
• Stylistically: More relies on creative a "dialogue" between his two main characters.

1. Raphael Hythloday --> humanist, world-traveller; we can see him as anti-establishment.
2. Thomas More --> a fictional representation of More, himself. His character serves as the counter/foil to Hythloday in Book 1. His character is part of the court...

Major Themes:

• The just society
• Private property
• The role of the intellectual (in Court, in Society)
• The value of religion

Structure:

Book 1: dialogue that revolves mostly around whether intellectuals belong at court, and why...

Book 2: Hythloday's description of "Utopia"

Discussion / Questions:

1. What is significant about the multiplicity of voices that we encounter in Book 1?

2. Is it important that "More" in Latin can imply a "fool"?

3. How much does the looking at the text as irony or un-ironic affect our understanding of ultimate meaning of Utopia?

4. Why, perhaps, may have been More's reason(s) for setting Utopia in the New World (the Americas)

Some Writing (with some time)...

1) In what ways can we, as modern readers, relate to the social issues that are discussed in Book 1? Please, provide some examples that we can cover.

2) Go to page 539. Read the last paragraph on this page (starts with, "'Well, let's go on...'"). How does knowing that the examples mentioned as solutions of courtiers help us understand the writing as "provocatively witty"? It might help your answering to reflect upon how valid or reasonable you think these solutions are!

Homework:

• Read Book 2, and write out answers to the following questions for class discussion (may be collected):

1. What is the relationship between book 1 and book 2? What light does each shed on the other?
2. How should we read “More’s” rejection of Utopian communism in the last paragraph? Do his reasons seem valid?
3. What do Utopian uses of gold (e.g., for chamberpots) suggest about the nature of economic value?
4. Why does More make slavery so essential to the functioning of Utopian society?

5. How would the Utopians resolve the vexing problems of modern urban life, such as the fair distribution of parking spaces?

Chaucer to Christ's Humanity

As we continue to discuss the religious influence on literature of Middle English times, a great example to reflect back on is the article, "Medieval Attitudes Towards Life on Earth." This article discusses how Christianity's influence on society led English faithful to see earth as a place of sin, and that living a spiritual life prepared one for eternal life in Heaven.

This gives us a good base for which we will discuss today's three texts: Chaucer's The Nun's Priest's Tale and the recorded visions of both Julian of Norwich and Margery Kempe.

• Chaucer's tale, like others of his we have discussed, is literature (metered, rhymed verse) while both JofN and MK's texts are devotional texts with stricter interpretation that rely on plain speech from the time (Though, there is craft in their texts.).

• All three of the texts include religious philosophy, though The Nun's Priest's Tale is a "beast fable" (think of Aesop).

• Julian of Norwich and Margery Kempe both rely on religious discourse involving the Passion of Christ, specifically his Crucifixion.

• Both JoN and MK's visions are iterative, which we define as the use repetition (of images, of method, of spiritual meaning, etc.).

• Both JoN and MK's texts are nice representatives of "Christ's Humanity." This is a nice phrase for the use of the image of Jesus Christ as a representation of God as a suffering human, in literature and other forms of art.... These depictions of JC allow readers to see his "suffering divinity." How does this humanizing of Christ affect readers? (For more on "Christ's Humanity," consult p. 355-56 of our anthology.)

Individual Texts:

Chaucer's The Nun's Priest's Tale

• Narrator almost buries the tale under excessively moralistic commentary that parodies the habit of medieval preachers and poets to find multiple meanings and morals in everything. In what way can wee see the tale as a parody?

• Mock-tragedy, the length with which Chaucer goes to show importance of Chanticleer to his hens!

• One of the interwoven themes in the parody is the discussion of "predestination." Knowing that this is a story about animals, what does Chaucer's inclusion of the theme of predestination add?

• "Parody does not exclude affection for the works that are being parodied. Part of the tale’s charm lies in Chaucer’s delight in the pretensions of the kinds of language he is employing" (Norton Teacher's Guide). The Nun's Priest is highly praised by the other pilgrims as a fine man. The reason for Chaucer's parody of the Nun's Priest may not be completely clear, but we cannot assume he is being derisive of religion. What we can understand is that such an "excessively moralistic" tale would have been humorously received by Chaucer's contemporary audience. In other words, Middle Age readers would have got a laugh out of both the tale and the Nun's Priest's character.

Julian of Norwich

• Julian was an anchoress, which means she locked herself in a room attached to the Church and devoted her life to her religion.
• Her writings are the first known written in English by a woman.
• Genre: Mystical (visions), theological prose
• Important images:

1. The visions
2. the bleeding head as rain falling off roofs
3. the lord as clothing
4. creation as the size of a hazelnut
5. God through JC, and JC as a mother!

• Important tropes:

1. Familial kinship and language used to understand (Christian) God
2. Use of paradox, defined as a statement or statements made that lead to seeming contradiction. Paradoxes seem to defy natural intuition, such as being God being creator and being created by human acknowledgement of him! Julian of Norwich also makes some connections between self-knowledge and spiritual knowledge.

Discussion Questions, (Also can help for Midterm)

1. Does it matter that Julian was a woman?

2. Describe the spatial imagination of the text.

3. Is there a connection between the text’s spatial imagination and the fact that Julian was enclosed?

4. How do Julian’s interpretations of her visions compare to the way literary critics unpack images?

5. How many kinds of paradox can you find in the text?

6. Is it fruitful to describe Julian’s discourse in terms of privacy and publicity?

7. Can you discern a gender politics to her work?

8. What is the meaning of pain in Julian’s writings?

9. How are the mental and the emotional experiences of this writing related?

10. Is this “autobiography”?

Key Excerpts for Discussion:

• Chapter 3 --> Julian connects her own suffering with that of Jesus Christ. "...For his pains were my pains..." (373).
• Ch. 4 --> p. 373, "the red blood runing down..."
• Ch. 4-->p. 374: "...a sinful creature living in this wretched flesh" (humanity and sin, female body)
• Ch. 4-->p. 374, seeing the Virgin Mary as human, "a simple maiden and a meek..."
• Ch. 5--> p. 374, "He is our clothing that for love wrappeth us and windeth us..."
• Ch. 5-->p. 375, material world v. spiritual: "When she is willfully noughted for love, to have him that is all, then she is able to receive ghostly rest."
• Ch. 7--> blood as "pellets" (375). Thickness of the blood
• Ch. 7-->p. 376, God's charity=to show self as "homely"/earthly..."Thus it is fareth by our Lord Jesu and by us...that he that is the highest and mightiest, noblest and worthiest, is lowest and meekest homeliest and courteousest."
• Ch. 27, "Sin is Fitting"--> p. 377, "...if sin had not been, we should all have been clean and like to our Lord as he made us."
• ***Which excerpts help us best understand "Jesus as Mother"?***

Margery Kempe

• Made pilgrimages to Jerusalem and to Julian of Norwich!
• Her images of Jesus Christ are in stark contrast (royal) with Julian's
• "Affective piety" of Kempe --> Religious devotion which is shown through deep meditation upon the physical and emotional sufferings of holy figures (such as Jesus Christ). Where do we see Kempe using "affective piety"?
• She was married, but negotiated with husband to attend to religious devotion (celibacy).
• Genre: Autobiography --> she was not literate and had dictated her visions and stories.
• Style: personal and intimate visuals, involving what goes on between her and her husband and her relationship with Christ.

Discussion Questions:

1. Is Margery the mistress or the victim of her text?

2. How do the social forms of Margery’s society (particularly related to marriage) inform her spirituality?

3. Is this text a form of therapy? For whom?

4. What is the function of conversation in this text? Between Kempe and her husband? Between Kempe and Christ?

5. What is the importance of pilgrimage for Margery?

Winter Storm: Cancellation and Homework

Dear Students,

Due to the snow blizzard that is to keep coming for the next two days (Tuesday and Wednesday) I do not think that it is in our best interest to have a class meeting so late in the night tonight. Therefore, we will not be meeting tonight, Tuesday 2/9.

Please continue with our reading schedule -- Margery Kempe for Thursday.

We will discuss Julian of Norwich and Margery Kempe on Thursday, and I will post notes and question discussions later today/early tomorrow.

Sincerely,

Chris

Homework for Tuesday, 2/9:

Read The Nun’s Priest Tale if you haven’t…we’ve got to talk about it’s antifeminism and Chauntecleer

o What does the poem suggest about literary interpretations and criticism?
o What are the values upheld by the beast fable as a genre? How does Chaucer demonstrate or correct those values?
o Why explore grave philosophical issues in a fiction about chickens?

Read the work of Julian of Norwich (p. 371-382 in our Norton Anthology)

o Does it matter that Julian was a woman? How do we see this in what, and in the way, she writes?
o Can you discern a gender politics to her work?
o What is the meaning of pain in Julian’s writings?
o How do her interpretations of her visions compare to the way literary critics unpack images?

Views of Women (from Dr. Bartlett, PhD, Depaul)

For help in writing your Midterm, here is Norton's own outline of rhetorical tools to use!

Specifically, in regard to the character's Chaucer is portraying, it is important to read this section of Norton On-line. A major key to understanding Chaucer is to understand the type of social types he is depicting in these tales, and that what is written is written from the character's point of view...